Category: Dating and Relationships
the topic title says it all, so I won't be repetitive. I figured I'd see what others perspectives are, as I know most females in particular, feel they couldn't/wouldn't have sex unless they were in a committed relationship. so, why do you feel the way you do, whatever that happens to be?
Not necessarily. Some people want sex but don't want to commit themselves to a relationship which is understandable. As long as there is communication, and both people use common sense and use protection and all that, there shouldn't be a problem.
Sex without a relationship could be fun but that's during young, in my opinion. I had some. but as of now, after getting maturity, I do feel sex without love or relationship is somewhat similar to masturbation.
Raaj.
so, Raaj, are you saying that people who choose to have sex when they aren't in a committed relationship are immature? if so, that's sad.
I'm sorry, I won't call them immatured... but I'll surely say I don't get any fulfillment only with sex nowadays.
Each their own of course. it's purely my taste. I wana feel the true love and I want to get attracted for having sex.
Raaj.
I think I'm really with Raj on this one. As I've said before in another topic, sex is something which requires responsibility. If you are going to engage in sexual intimacy, you need to be responsible for any consequences - both physical and mental - which may arise. I think there's more to sexuality than the purely physical. It's also a little bit about self-control, too. Sometimes you just have to keep it in your pants. I personally haven't met anyone whose life has gotten better as a result of casual sex with people they have little more than a fleeting interest in. Maybe some people's lives have, but I sure haven't encountered any.
I don't think anyone can speak for anyone else when it comes to this kind of question. Everyone is different. However, having said that, I think that sex without love is easier when one is very young. I think most people want more than just sex when they start getting older and more mature and start finding that sex without love is not as fulfilling as it once might have been.
BG, eating junkfood doesn't make anyone's life better in the long run; that doesn't mean people don't do it. Now, I know what you're probably thinking: Yes, but eating junkfood isn't going to give you STD's or get someone pregnant. No, but it can damage the liver and other vital organs, it can clog arteries, raise cholesterol levels, cause weight gain, and a whole host of other health problems. So yes. If you're irresponsible with your junkfood eating habbits, there can be serious implications, just as there can be with unsafe sex.
O, by the way, about that, what is it about a commited relationship that somehow makes people suddenly responsible about having sex? And, what is it about not being in a relationship that somehow makes people irresponsible? Sorry, but communication and responsibility have little to do with being in a commited relationship, as sad as it is. If everyone who entered a relationship was responsible and communicated their needs affectively, there would be far fewer break-ups. In fact, provided everyone involved are affective communicators, having sex outside of a commited relationship presents fewer opportunities for people to get emotionally hurt, since there's no need to hide the fact that you may be seeing other people at the same time. people in relationships hide this stuff all the time. It's called cheating. Ever hear of it? of course you have. it causes a lot of pain and heartbreak, since said people are very attached to one another, and are most likely under the impression their partner feels as they do. So, keeping all that in mind, no, I don't think you need to be in an exclusive/commited relationship to have sex. Just be careful.
Is a friendship not a relationship? I dislike that people connect the word "relationship" solely with commitment.
I have always been friends with my partners, although very rarely have we been committed to each other. Sex is something I do with special people but not everyone, just like some friends are fun to watch movies with and some aren't.
The physical act is enriched by trust, respect, communication and humor. That can be said of any relationship.
I couldn't agree with OceanDream more. Maybe the people aren't interested in a relationship, but they want to have sex. Just because you aren't in a relationship does not mean the two people involved aren't being safe and smart about it.
Another thing I thought of is it is an opportunity to learn some things, such as different positions and different turn ons. Plus, you may learn a lot about yourself, things you would and wouldn't like.
I don't mean to be repetitive, but, as Jess said, how the hell does being in a committed relationship mean you're more responsible than those of us who don't want that commitment, but wanna enjoy the beauty/fulfillment sex provides? can you explain that, BG?
cause, contrary to assumptions I feel are indirectly being made here, I, personally, am very responsible. in fact, I got on birth control (for myself, not for anyone else) way before I started having sex.
and, also, the notion that sex becomes meaningless when you aren't tied down to one person, is absolutely ludacrous.
if you care about someone a lot, have a strong connection with them, the sex is/can be just as amazing/fulfilling as some would argue is only the case when in a committed relationship.
Thank you Jess, Ryan and M for talking some sense here.
If you are the kind of person that doesn't wish to engage in sexual activity outside of a "relationship" then more power to you. But to say that it is irresponsable for others to do does not seem very well informed or open minded.
If both parties are in a greement then where's the harm? Responsibility does not come with being in a relationship. If we want people, particularly younger adults to be responsible then we must edducate them responsibly. Its really as simple as that.
I had to stop masturbating recently because I had a falling out with myself. My relationship with me is definitely on the rocks. I hope I can work through this, since my hand is becoming increasingly restless. If I jerk off before I work out my inner conflict, I'm afraid people will see me as irresponsible, and I can't have that now, can I?
I agree with M a friendship is a relationship. I am assuming we are not talking about meeting a stranger and having sex, but sex with someone you know, but are not planning to be with one on one at the moment.
I think sex is good for sex’s sake. You don’t need to be married, or saying I will be with you only, and all these things. Responsibility doesn’t come because you say we are committed, but with your decision to care about others. Ask women in some places about committed relationships, and why they have Aids, but never were with anyone else but the committed partner.
To have sex with someone I have to care about them to some degree, so am responsible for them. I really think that having sex because I need and desire sex improves my life greatly, so I am one that disagrees with the notion it is bad. I am not in a hurry to get in to a shaky committed relationship, trying to hook up with every woman that comes in to my path, and such things, because I am sexually fulfilled.
This is the mistake people make; they get married, because they don’t want to be single, because they need that companionship to the wrong person.
When you share a meal, a drink, or something with another person you become close and you begin to want them physically. It is just how we are built.
Self-control should not mean you suffer or do without, but that you are responsible for the things you do, and so with that said having sex responsibly is better than wanting sex and doing without. What are you accomplishing not having sex with people that enjoy you and wish to share this with you? Who is getting hurt by shared love and caring?
Some people actually get mentally and physically sick from abstaining. I honestly believe this is the Catholic priest issue. They are abusing people because they are frustrated, so what is worse, having some sex, or abusing others for sex?
The sin of sex is the abuse, the lying, and the cheating. Hiding sexual desire is why many people end up with diseases, hurt feelings, and such I believe.
They sneak off, get it done quickly and privately they think, but sometimes take what they have gotten from that encounter to the next person sneaking.
I say have sex with someone if you can, or with yourself if not, but holding back seems against nature and God if we are looking at this from that point of view.
Wayne, yes, I'm strictly talking about having sex with someone you know and trust.
and, very well said, by the way.
I'm not in a relationship. granted at the moment any relationship would be online anyway and i don't want that. I wouldn't say no to cyber though. skypechat sort of thing. skype talk maybe. sex for the sake of having sex. as long as you and who ever knew that's all it was is fine. least i wouldn't say no. though you don't want to give your partner something and get nothing in return.
i gave my friend a hand job, she goes takes a bath and then goes to bed and falls asleep and gives me nothing in return. mind she was on the phone with her boyfriend while i was fingering her, but yeah. point stands. as long as you talk then there's no problem.
Well that is abuse. Now my question is why would you finger your friend when she's on the phone with the person that should be fingering her?
You can't get mad if you got nothing back. Sex with someone is 2 ways not one way or you needed to get paid.
If you are having sex you should be enjoying sex, or you aren't wasting time.
Hmmm, not sure about that, Wayne. I really don't mind jerking or sucking a guy off and not having the favor returned, as long as he really gets in to what I'm doing. If he acted totally dead while I was doing it, I would get bored, true, but I love bringing a guy to the point of cumming and then backing off for a moment before doing it again. Ultimately, I really can't stress how much I love feeling and hearing a guy cum, so as long as I get to do that, I'm satisfied. To me, this is why I'd rather do sexual things with someone I know decently well. The intensity of the orgasms fascinates me. I want to know what he's like when the orgasm is very weak, as well as very strong, so meeting a stranger and sucking him off once might be fun, but it wouldn't give me the oppertunity to compare several of his orgasms. LOL I know this probably sounds weird, but that's as good as I can do at explaining it. I do want there to be some sort of friendship if we're gonna play.
I don't see how people get off so easily with skype and siber sex. It won't work for me unless it is physical and real. Plus, how do you know you aren't doing it with some person that wouldn't appetize you in real life.
very good point, Ryan. I couldn't agree more.
I also agree with Anthony's last post. personally, I don't expect anything in return. as long as my partner is happy with what I do, that's all the satisfaction I need.
Its good to give, but when you give you get something back. Anthony you do.
In this case she was fingering her friend and she was on the phone with her boyfriend, not paying her any mind except the fingering. When she was finished she went to sleep.
In this case she didn't even get the pleasure of knowing she was enjoyed.
I do feel one way pleasure could not be a good sex. If you are ok with one way pleasure, why don't ya go for artificials like a blow doll or a vibrator for your entire life?
I could not get convinced with one way thing though. I do expect and I really want my partner to find out and pleasure me with what I like. That's the way I am. Of course, as you people often say, different strokes for different fokes.
Raaj.
I have never done what we used to call 'unattached sex', what now people call friends with benefits, or open relationships. So, to that end, I could not rightly opine on the situation as to how it would be.
However, a couple of observations I have made over the years / decades:
It strikes me that those with the strongest opposing opinions to any sexual situation are often the most insecure about their own sexuality, perhaps jealous or very clingy to a set of ideals.
I don't believe every person needs to try every thing in order to make up their own mind. I know Foridians, for instance, who don't know the joys of running and sliding across pond ice, or the terror of falling through it. I know both. Naturally, there are some who only know about the terror of falling through it, and so would not want to give it a try, and others who only think of how much fun it would be, and probably wouldn't take the necessary precautions.
We've also all known people, usually young people, who are insecure about their own abilities in some area, and so have to comment and disapprove loudly about the performance of other people. Youtube comments are full of would-be CIA operatives, NSA employees, etc. If you were not born yesterday, you don't believe a word of it. I, for instance, was once an employee of the Immigration service, during the Reagan Amnesty era. But since I did it for real, I am generally loath to opine about current immigration trends, at least not without a lot of time and consideration. And, when I do, I generally skirt the plattitudes and other ways and means of the technically incompetent.
This business of open or closed relationships, monogamy or so-called ownership, however one looks at it, is to me like anything else: you know someone's credentials and lack thereof by the amount of loudmouthery and plattitudes they use. Ask a member of PETA about hunting, a religious fundamentalist about the human genome, or an astrologer about satellites and navigation, and on all counts you will come up short. On all counts, they'll talk much, look smart, sound informed, and communicate very little real data. I think you can expect the same with this open relationships business: people will opine loudly rather than fix their own problems, become fixated with your sexual situation rather than become less insecure and less hung up about sexual matters themselves. It's easier to opine about other people than it is to improve oneself.
To be honest, in answer to Post 1, for me personally, I do not know.
It seems like a very bad situation to raise offspring, as humans need the proverbial nest to raise their young. Part of that nest seems to include a stable relationship of some kind.
But offspring aside, all sorts of monogamous situations were deemed abominable, not by monsters, but by the so-called normal. The concerned. Romantic love, marriages not arranged for property, mixed race marriages, divorce / remarriage, even remarriage after widowhood! All we really get out of this is that establishing taboos and fixating on them seems to be a sort of human social pornography: humans can never get enough of the lust for denouncing each other. A form of social rape which can never ever be satisfied. I think now, that I actually know what true depravity looks like: this mad lust to disapprove of other people, other ways of doing things, as a methamphetamine which makes the disapprover feel invincible. Just like any methhead, they're out streetwalking for their next fix, while internally things become quite fetid.
The tabooers have such a terrible track record, that if they are ever right, the building will probably burn down while the occupants turn over in bed and groan, saying: "That damn kid pulled the fire alarm ... AGAIN!"
Raaj, nothing was said about only experiencing one way fulfillment. does it not occur to you that, in knowing I'm pleasuring my partner, I'm in turn gaining some myself, in addition to whatever he/she is doing?
if, for instance, my partner doesn't like being given head, why should I disregard that fact simply cause it's something I'd like to do? if I'm not knowledgeable of the fact there are other ways for him/her to be pleasured by me, I still wouldn't be fulfilled.
ultimately, as has been said, it's about clear and honest communication.
but, as leo said, I fully recognize that for some, criticizing others is easier for most people, especially when they're jealous and likely unfulfilled in their own lives.
raaj, a blowup doll would not let me know how much it enjoyed what I was doing to it. It would not communicate with or show emotions to me. Therefore, it would leave me empty and unfulfilled.
Another response to the original question:
Heterosexual males will sometimes show their disapproval in these matters after being goaded by the 'concern' of a female partner. This is mainly to show that partner that she need not be jealous, or to patch over the insecurity.
Men who resisted the burning of a young woman during the witch burnings in Europe, for instance, were often accused, by the town's women, of sleeping with that woman if she was young and attractive.
So in short, we compensate for their insecurity, much as we and others may compensate for our own lack of eyesight, those of us that are blind. So, are we treating their insecurity as a disability? Is it a disability? Because by our open disapproval of other consenting adults, especially strangers on TV but even among friends, this is what we're doing: compensating and coddling the insecure, like parents who shelter the disabled. Perhaps we should instead be telling them to toughen up, that the world does not revolve around them or their ideals, that they're going to have to learn to get along with others who are not exactly like them, and not to wear their insecurity disability on their sleeves. Just as was done to us as blind people. But I don't think a debate will settle it. Just as I, a straight white male, cannot ever hope to convince some feminists that I am not a sexist pig, or even some insecure gays that I am not a threat or a hater.
I've occasionally had lady friends that I did that with. My concern would be if one develops more feelings but the other doesn't.
I have offten pondered this question but one thing keeps coming up, what if I get atracted to one of the partners I would be involved with sexually? What if by chance a condom brakes, one of my parteners comes up with a baby and its mine? This is why friend with benifits would not work with me at all in the end. Fore those that is does work, pat on the back to you, its just not for me. Yes, marrige has its ups and downs, sometimes a lot of downs but one thing I can count on is my partner beeing there when I need a very close person to talk to and open up to about my deepest feelings. Sorry but a friends with benifits would never see a side of me like that at all.
How do you know that? Some friends with benefits are very close emotionally; they're just not exclusive. some people seem to judge this whole thing very black and white, from what I've noticed. It seems that some people think that if two people are in a commited relationship, they're both inteligent, they've considered all their options, they're in love, and nobody is being dishonest. that is quite often not the case. And come on; think about it. If I wanted to fuck someone I didn't give a shit about or didn't want to become close to, I wouldn't look for a *friends* with benefits situation. I'd go look on Craig's list or something similar for some random person who wanted a one-night stand. for the record, I could personally never do that. I can't picture being that intimate with someone I don't know and never intend to get to know, but I believe my point has been made.
Jess's last post is correct.
and, I know for me personally, I take sex more seriously than words can express. so, I wouldn't be sharing it with someone who didn't know me inside and out, or who I couldn't communicate everything to.
as for one person possibly wanting more, anything is likely to happen. that's why it's crucial to always be completely honest.
if you feel that'd likely happen if you were to get involved in a friends with benefits relationship, don't go through with it. simple as that.
this really isn't black and white, as most individuals feel it is.
Also if you start to like a person more than the easy relationship that is when you say, or they say and you decide if you want to go further. Same thiing with when you found your wife or husband.
If the condom breaks and you know it broke, these days a woamn really doesn't have to go through wondering, or anything. We have the morning after pill. There are just to many ways not to have a child you aren't ready to have.
Some friends do that as well, but that opens up a completely different subject.
I do agree, if its not for you don't do it.
well, as I said, on the other thread on lets talk I believe, sex is precious. and, it means a lot connected to dating, and self, and to that other person, and your values and what it means to be you, and all sorts of thing. so it's important to give your love to the write person. If you take it casually and give it to people less carefully then you should you've just lost your virginity to them. i would rather wait and lose it to the one, I know I would be with and be around. and, show her how much it means to me.
Also, unlike a lot of people especially on here, because it's so dear and precious and such a mark of my love, I would not be so loud, and casual about it, and spread that information like a lot of people on here as if I was talking about what kind of meat I consumed for lunch.
Its not that easy, and many people can't do it at all. Its not "what kind of meath you had for lunch." Its much better than that.
You know I really think as I posted people get in to "serious" relationships, because they had these needs. They call it love after the first day or so, and "We'll never leave each other." So if you "leave each other" about once a month or 6 what are you doing?
To my last post, marige is dear to my heart, not something a person jumps in an out of just because the other half has some trates that bother me. So its not just that the LDS church values family, they do, its apart of their teach, its that to me it means my partner will be with me for eternity wants we get married in the temple. As for the temple marige I am still learning more about it, new to the LDS church.
To tie my last post to sex, I am the type who wants to learn someone en and out, so I can orgazmicly make her shout lol :), I feel I can not do it if multiple parterns are in the picture. Each of those partners are different so no one way or two ways works for all of them, quite frankly at my age 35, do not have time to learn a whole group of peoples sexual likes and dislikes. In a nut shell, been there done some of that, have a page or two in the book written and closed that chapper of my life.
I'll try to remind you of that the next time I see you all over the place talking about being tempted to bang this chick or that. I'm sorry, but to come across as all high and mighty one minute and then to whine and cry about wanting to bang this one or that really doesn't help people to take you very seriously, at all. Not trying to be mean, just pointing out something that you might want to examine. Look at all the sex boards that you yourself have started. You don't exactly strike me as being content. You definitely put your feelers out there. That just doesn't send out the same mesage as only wanting one person and not being able to do the friends with benefits thing. My main point is that you might want to take a look at the mixed signals you're sending out. Again, I'm not trying to be unkind, and, to your credit, I haven't seen you do it lately, so that's good.
Again I say it is not for everyone, and you haven't seen me say so. I do say it can and does work, and doe not make me wake up nights screaming.
I do from time to time have problems with it because people refuse to believe what I say. They never have been able to say "you lied to me."
Adults should except it and live with it. Some don't have a problem with it, but I'm not one of them. If I became a priest I'd not last a day.
It is not easy, because of societies beliefs about sex in general, but I find it comforting, because I haven't lied. I'm not out trying to score with every skirt that passes me. I can enjoy a woman's company without the sex issue being a problem.
If she truly wishes to be a "friend" she should leave my house before we are forced to spend a night together if I'm sexually interested in her. This is fair to me. No, I'll not keep asking or bug her about it. I can even sleep in the same bed with her a night and leave her alone, however, then next day I have to explain again why we can't let this happen again.
If I know she's the type that doesn't watch the time and has problems going home I do. I'll pay the taxi fare or whatever, but I refused to spend a night suffering because of need. If she's not there I don't have to deal with it.
I believe if we admit our sexual needs, we can deal with them as they should be dealt, but if we refuse to except them we will hade, cheat, lie, and such things, because we can't be real with ourselves.
This is only my opinion.
very well stated, Wayne.
sex is, and should be, an important part of our lives. humans have needs, after all.
and, on that same token, as has also been said, those of us who choose to have it outside of relationships shouldn't be looked down upon just cause others don't agree.
more power to those who wanna deny themselves that pleasure, simply cause they feel a friend with benefits isn't the "right" person. I'm glad I've grown out of that frame of mind, and seen its value for what it's truly worth.
another point I forgot to bring up, is the fact that, as women, it used to be that we were taught to find one guy to commit to, and settle down with only him. therefore, since we were conditioned to have that view, and not even consider other options being a possibility, that really hindered our growth
not only have times changed, but since there are various protection methods to be used for both genders, getting pregnant isn't a huge worry, the way many act is the case, nor is settling down with one individual an absolutely certain thing for everyone.
I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating. I'm utterly disgusted by the view that I, as a woman who knows what she wants, and isn't afraid to go after it, am seen by most as the exact opposite, simply cause I don't desire what the majority of humanity does.
it needs to disappear. only by talking about it, and being unafraid to bring attention to this, will some light be seen.
as I've said, if you're responsible, completely trust the people you're with, and, most importantly, don't allow yourself to accept society's totally outdated hang ups, you'll be fine.
Well said. Women have as much need, or want as men if they admit it. I really find it refreshing for a woman to say so, and if she is interested in that sort of relationship, or sex she indicates these things.
If I had a choice between a gussing game and someone that invites me over, and dresses so I understand her wishes, I'd simply love that!
All the promises I require is her honesty about her sexual history, her conterceptive requirements, and that she is free to enjoy without complications. We really do well.
Love takes time, and you can't develop love, because you are having good sex, fun times, and enjoying each other.
I find it is possible to enjoy a woman that doesn't exactly share all your views about life, and I mean really enjoy her. Her company's good, she's honest, you like her personality, and her physicalness, so you are enjoying her.
After a while you learn that you don't care about saving money, or cleaning the house, or the dog sitting on the couch, but she does. If you marry her for the pleasure pretty soon you're going to let the dog sit on the couch to many times, and spend the rent on that new laptop you just had to have and you'll fight, and that fight will lead to that disliking each other.
Waiting on that "special" person requires looking for them. If you don't look you'll not find that person.
The second half of this is physicalness has much to do with loveing a person for a long time. I have known marriages to crumble, because the couple didn't know each other sexually. Putting a ring on her finger doesn't mean the sex will be compatible.
I have know couples that learn the woman is not really interested, or has some issues she hasn't discusses. The man finds he has issues, and she didn't know it, but because you are now maried you must stick it out. Sad state.
Last two bring up a awful lot of good points, points which exist in society all around.
I wonder if the resistance is not because you're a woman though. I come from the Pacific Northwest so maybe this is a different part of the country or something, but men who sleep around have never in my 41 years been seen as "okay" or anything, in fact they are seen as predatory, misusing of women, not sensitive to a woman's need, there is quite a list actually. Maybe in the Bible Belt somewhere this is the case that men are lauded for sexual exploits? All I can say is the idea that women are demeaned for it, may well be accurate. But it's not accurate to say that at the same time men are praised: in fact quite the opposite. Being deemed a predator is not praise.
it's interesting how the judgments differ between the genders. From what I've seen, if men enjoy casual sex and don't want to commit to one partner, they're seen as using helpless women to fulfill their own selfish desires. if women do the same, they're seen as being dirty, desperate, irresponsible, insecure sluts who think they're better than all the other girls, yet don't actually know what they want. neither judgment is always true, but I find it almost funny that men are always the users victimizing poor little girls, and the girls are always the poor, desperate damaged girls who don't know how to deal with their problems. My conclusion? Society seems to like to complicate things it can't understand.
Thank youOcean! Just thank you!
Leo this isn't exactly about sleeping around either. It is about enjoying your friend, or a woman/man you are close to, but aren't yet, or ever interested in marrying.
Maybe you never want to be married, or live with a person, but you need companionship/sex. Must you marry/live with someone so you can fulfill you companionship/sexual needs, or should you enjoy others freely that want to spend time with you?
And it's certainly a whole lot better than cheating on your partner who may or may not believe you're being honest with them. either way, you're not, so whether they believe it is irrelavant. think what you might about friends with benefits situations, but at least nobody has a reason to lie. That doesn't mean people don't, but like any situation, if it gets bad, you get out, let your wounds heal, and get on with it.
All I meant was, men do not have it easy as the feminists typically claim: I understand the unfair treatment against women, but ironically, I understand it having been treated to the same since grade school / childhood / the blame game against us men.
This topic started out refreshingly about individual responsibility but as soon as people devolve into the male-bashing, or calling women sluts, or other misbehaviors, you lose all that you gained by the people who are responsible enough to know what they want, people like Post 1. Sorry, men are not unilaterally having it easier in that department, any more than men are all responsible for the mammogram and all the rest which have been foisted on us.
If you are a man and start into this, a friends with benefits relationship, you are likely to be seen as a horn dog, insensitive to women, a misogynist in fact, all sorts of things.
The problem is ascribing blame and throwing out terms to begin with.
The ultimate in equality and self-empowerment is taking individual responsibility (like post 1 describes), rather than the unilateral blame which is common among the feminists and the Mens' Rights groups alike.
I think it really depends on the individuals in question and the situation. (No, not the guy from Jersey shore!) I've had very good relationships with great sex and friends with benefits situations and a couple one night hookups that did not work out. However, I've also had relationships with not much to write home about in terms of common ground, common interests, trust, sharing, or sex. Finally, I've also had friends with benefits sort of situations where we hung out and had a good time, cared about each other, listened to each other, and had fantastic crazy sex. so, it really depends on the two people in question and how it works for them minus the label attached, whatever that may be. Just because two people are in a relationship, it doesn't make things great and doesn't make it any more real than two people having sex that happen to be friends. What I mean is, it doesn't determine quality either way.
The point to take away from a discussion like this is that there are many views, none of which are wrong, but out of all of them there are likely only to be a few that apply specifically to each of us.
We should support people who enjoy casual sex, people who want to save sex for marriage, people who have sex with one partner at a time or multiple partners. We should support people the way we wanted to be supported in our own choices, because no matter what kind of sex you are or aren't having, you should be able to feel safe and confident enough to communicate your particular wants and desires without being disrespected by your friends, by strangers, and especially by your lover(s).
Well Leo is right. A man doesn't always have it easier than women.
Why can't you settle down? You just want to use women? As he says that list can go on.
People are always saying "All I want is honesty." You give them honesty and you get "you're brutal" or "Your just afraid of a meanigful relationship."
You say, okay, I'm being a male horn dog, so lets take the sex out of the relationship, and be friends, because I really don't want your feelings hurt. The answers "well I don't just want to be your friend." *sigh* Damned if you do damned if you don't.
I wonder if our perceptions on this topic are in any way influenced by the relationships we have had, or currently have.
In my case I can say yes and no. My last post was experienced. I have been married for a while, so can have a long term relationship. My heart says I am open to this and I find I am honestly comfortable with it.
When I have had this type of relationship honestly, it feels good. I'd go so far as to suggest when you know you can call a person, meet them and enjoy them completely you don't have the stress of promises, or deciding when you are going to get serious. You don't have to impress them with your I'm the right one for you, I don't know how to say that.
You can go shopping at the mall, eat, cuddle at home. When either is ready to go home there is no parting issues, because you know she or he will come backk soon. You don't have to promise to stay around for 3 4 days when you really just want to go home and be alone.
Its not personal, it just you had a great time, so now you need your me time. You don't love or like them less. I don't know.
I know I've posted on this topic lots. Maybe it is my way of working out the thought process? Lol
Hey, why not. I myself have experienced a variety of the situations presented. My belief that sexuality is sacred, and something to be shared when two people are fully committed has not changed, but I recognize that is my own belief. There is certainly an unquestionable draw to the casual intimacy, but I find that there is often too much risk involved to make casual trists worthwhile. Now I'm not saying it can't work. It can, certainly. Communication, as in every single type of encounter is key. If you both can remain on the same page and act responsibly, then the consequences - if there are to be any - are yours to bare. I say yours, and I mean that generally here. But in my own experiences - both from what I've encountered, and what I've observed - I have found that that neutral sense of casual companionship rarely lasts. Eventually one party develops additional feelings, or finds someone with which they want to have a relationship. Certainly that casual sex with one's friend should not exist if one of them is in a relationship. Some people might be okay with that degree of openness, but I can't imagine they are many in number. Certainly committed people run into trouble too, and there are likely a few exceptions to what I've already said. But as one who has experienced much of this spectrum, I've found I greatly enjoy and appreciate my partner a great deal more when there is something special between us.
I too enjoy that special closeness, but I wouldn't have to have a commitment. As long as we were close and there was an emotional bond there, it would work for me. I don't think I could just go find a stranger and play around physically. I've certainly done it on phone chatlines, but we knew what we were there for, we both satisfied the urge and then hung up.
BG, I think you're clearly missing the point I've been trying to make that the casual sex I'm talking about here, isn't with strangers. it's with someone I know, trust completely, and whose friendship I treasure. I, personally, wouldn't have things any other way.
BG, do you think that commitment must exist to have an emotional bond? I ask because your posts seem to present the idea that you think the two go hand and hand, and that neither can exist without the other. am I wrong? If so, my appologies. But if not, let me ask you this: You are close to your friends, right? You share an emotional bond with them, just not on the romantic level, right? If so, do you have an understanding with these friends that you will not share such a bon with anyone else? probably not. the only difference is that some friends choose to include sex in that relationship. They still care about each other very much, only they've chosen not to restrict these bonds and activities to one another exclusively. Even in situations where two people don't share an emotional attachment, they've decided this together, and they've taken precautions to insure that they won't ever have a reason to need to be involved after the night is over. It's not something I could do, but once again, communication is the key; not commitment. A commited relationship won't work any better than an open one of the communication isn't there. I have no idea how to make this more clear to you. Maybe I'm wrong; Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding where you're coming from, but either way, commitment itself doesn't guarantee you anything.
I don't think you're wrong, Jess. that's the notion I've gathered from BG, as well, which, as you said, doesn't mean things are any better/more fulfilling.
commitment isn't what makes things, after all. communication and honesty do.
Oh, Okay, I see it from a perspective when I was younger, not going into what or who I paid for sex, any way, beeing older, beeing apart of a family "LDS church family" I do see why for the most part their core ideas work. Again, this is me, those who believe in those core values, they honestly have saved my marige. To cover this topic, have I had flings, yes! but as I got older my need or want to have a life long partner grew. Maybe this post will be picked apart for this comment, this is just my views, while casual sex with close friends works for some, there are others it does not work. :) me now na, not for me, yes I have post about this, at the time my personal relationship was ruff. So there is my 2 sence for this board.
hmm i'll just say this. since right now only sex i've had is on the internet, via messenger or skype, i wouldn't have a problem having sex, for sex's sake. hell even if there was a physical chance. i wouldn't mind as long as i at least knew the person and trusted them a littlebit. it's sort of what i'm looking for right now, not wanting to commit to another online relationship. did that for 2 years and a bit and, well. ldr didn't work.
Excuse me people, for speaking my real mind. I believe each human beeing is special. The body is sacred, and If you have some respect for yourself you won't be showing those areas that one covers with garments to just anyone. I can happaly say with my head up high that at my age, I am very special and I will take that step with someone who really loves me and also respects me because I respect myself
So are you saying that any girl who decides to be free with her own body no longer respects herself? Why can't a girl simply wish too enjoy everything that life has to offer, including the pleasures of sex? Why does she have to be disrespecting herself if she does that? I'm here to tell you, the human body, male or female, is nothing all that special. You're not giving away some precious gift by having sex or losing your virginity. Its not really special if everybody's got one.
I cover my armpits so that must make them special too. So the truck driver who wears those sleeveless shirts doesn't treat himself special. No, anymore I think all that about sex and sacred seems to be more about how to control the rest of us.
What else do we cover? Let's see: I always cover the garbage can. Does that make that special? I often cover my feet during the cold months anyway. In fact, since humans are nearly hairless, we cover near about every part of ourselves.
Anymore, I think most of what is written about this topic is either a desire to suppress and contro other people, or a need to make money off of other people suppressing and controlling people. I certainly used to believe many of those fairy tale notions, but have in recent years finally gotten enough sense to see beyond it all.
If sex is sacred, and we are also to believe that emotions, especially women's emotions, are sacred, then don't dispense your emotions to anybody until you have found just that right one to share them with. Oh, and many of us think that making memories with family and friends are, if not sacred, certainly to be treasured. So, do nothing and make no memories with anyone until you have found that right one. See how silly it sounds when we take a step back? It's just that nobody has a stake in controlling others' emotions, or controlling whether or not people make memories, or whether or not you go barefoot / run around with uncovered feet. Otherwise, they'd call those of us who like to run barefoot sluts, I guess. Anyway, taking a step back, doing a little substitution, tends to provide perspective not saddled with the cultural con games we as societies play.
well said, Cody and leo.
to those who feel it's respectable to make yourself suffer and wait for someone to come along that, in truth, may not, especially given your attitude, you, along with those who have so many hangups that they can't even perform sexually, are only hurting yourselves.
No I am not saying a girl is disrespectful if she freely enjoys the pleasures of sex. It really all depends on how much you value yourself, and, well if you don't think it's special maybe you are reflecting how you are feeling about yourself. But guess what? I'm not just any person, I am unique and therefore, I will treat my body with the responsable freedom and care I wish and deserve. And comparing the body to that of a trashcan? hmmm. don't come up with the "cleaver logical reasonings" ... And come on, barefoots would not be considdered sluts just for beeing barefoot, that is plain boloni, I said specificly under garments.
It's so easy to go with what is more comfortable and relaxing
I agree 100% the body is sacred, so I fulfill it. I won't just sleep with anyone, but I have had friends with benefits. I liked it very much, up until the person developed feelings for me. I don't think I should have to limit myself to just one person for sex, just because I find my body and myself sacred and unique. We all are, this whole wait til marriage thing and stuff like that is only a faze of the years.
exactly, last poster.
I was, of course, not comparing the human body to a trash can. And now I understand why they have analogies as a concept on the SAT tests for kids to get into college, since apparently some cannot understand an analogy. The point was made that there are things we cover, which hence make them sacred. My point was we cover lots of things, and I used the example of both feet and a garbage can as two very dissimilar things we cover, and nobody considers at all to be sacred. An analogy is not a comparison, it is an image to demonstrate something that is related.
Oh and why not wait to invest in anything until you find just that right opportunity. Wait to get a job until you find that right company. Wait to go to school until you find just that right university.
Except of course none of those things would result in a working population so society and religion would not enforce this. They are more prone to invest resources in controlling others' passions or desires since that costs them nothing and gains them either followers, or financially, or otherwise.
Well then congratulations! I don't think waiting till marriage but wsth one person to whom you are sure of your feelings, that's all
Actually, you might want to go back and check what you said. You didn't say undergarments, you said clothing. Say what you mean next time.
Now, I hear this phrase a lot, "The body is sacred". Rather than point out how patently stupid it is, (cough cancer cough), I'll just ask you to do one little thing for me. Prove it.
that's exactly the point I and others have been trying to make, that feelings, not commitnent, are what make sex special, regardless of whether it's a friend with benefits or not. commitment has no part in this, unless it's just to say that one will fully satisfy his or her partner.
well, I appologize, but it is no excuse for beeing silly to try to make a point. I respect your point of view, and I ask the same of you, sounds fair? So really, enjoy!
no, fair isn't right. and, no, I don't respect what I don't think is true.
I don't respect your point of view. I think your point of view is patently stupid. The body being sacred is idiotic. There are billions of bodies, yours is not special or unique in any important way. Just because its yours doesn't make it special. Also, if the body is sacred, why do we do so much to change it? I'm not even talking about plastic surgery here. I'm talking even about shaving, shaving isn't necessary, its just a social construct. Why do we bathe. Bathing isn't necessary on a frequent basis, but we do it cuz we don't want our sacred bodies smelling like sacred sweat. Why do we wear clothing which emphasizes one part of our bodies while covering another? Is only part of your body sacred? If its sacred, shouldn't you be proud of it? People don't shut temples away behind curtains, they display them proudly. Yeah, your opinion needs work, I'll respect it when its defensible.
My body is special to me and me alone until the girl I cover things she likes it to. It is a great thing when you've got 2 people who think your bodies are special and want to learn how to make them feel good.
No I haven't read any of the replies to this topic but my answer is quick and to the point, but everyone has different opinions on this and that's fine.
I don't believe in sex outside a relationship; I don't believe in one night stands; well I do believe in them as people do it Lol but definitely not for me. committed relationship or no sex at all.
And again, why. People keep making these claims, but they never say why. Give me a reason. What makes a committed relationship so special? It can't be the permanence of them, cuz they are about as permanent as cupcakes at a weight loss convention. So what makes a committed relationship so special, and when do you know its committed? maybe its only committed for you. Would it make a difference then? Would you feel ashamed that you ahd sex with someone who wasn't looking to get married and have kids? Do you even think these things through or do you just go with what you've been taught by the past generations?
I find it rather interesting how people just love to be silly and preposterous to make a point. A commited relationship is special when both of you value each other for who you are and thus wish to be with each other and know each other even more, you see we learn about ourselves also through other people. And don't you think one could avoid having felt ashamed of having sex with someone who didn't want to be married or kids is really by having one person at a time, if not a commited relationship? I think you are an ill-mannered stubbern non-grata persona. If you disagree, fine but I'd appreciate you at least having respect because I have not refered your opinions as patently stupid, jerk!
yes, we learn about ourselves through others, which is exactly why some of us choose to share our bodies with people who desire us. that, in turn, shows we truly value ourselves, and our bodies.
and, yes, people, do tell what makes commitment more meaningful, when I've just demonstrated that the same things some say only exist in a committed relationship, also exist elsewhere, too.
As I stated above the body is sacred in my eyes because of what I've been taught, its just a belief of mine. It goes with me now and sticks, but I don't feel its necessary to explain that. Its my belief and obviously not others. As I also said above, since I feel this way, I do like to please it. I like committed relationships don't get me wrong, but I also don't mind sleeping around when I'm single. If I'm seeing someone, the only person I'll be sleeping with is them. If I'm single, that is my business, and my business alone.
Ok, if you feel you don't need to defend it, you don't need to have it or share it either. Your opinion is pointless if all you're going to do is have it.
Dolce, would you rather I said I felt your opinion is poorly reasoned, based on unsound logical principles, demonstrably faulse, ambiguous in its practices, and so far entirely undefended by its possessor? Would that have made you feel more warm and fuzzy inside? Cuz news flash, its the same thing. Saying that is saying that your opinion is patently stupid, just in a whole lot more words. You obviously don't agree with my opinion either, so grow a pair and step up to that.
Now, to answer a few of your questions. I'm friends with Chelsea. I enjoy talking to her and I want to know more about her. Thus, by your definition Chelsea and I are in a committed relationship. We're not, but that's a problem with your definition, not our friendship.
But let me present you with a scenario here, mostly cuz I like scenarios. Lets say you find a man who you absolutely loved being with, and he loved being with you. You fall madly in love with each other, the theme from romeo and juliet plays in the background, you kiss in the rain, everything is perfect. You decide you want to give him your virginity, I'm assuming you're a virgin, don't correct me, I don't want to know. A few months later you're talking to your boyfriend/fiance/husband and you find out a secret about him. Maybe he used to be a woman, or maybe he used to sell drugs on the blackmarket. Maybe he's a con man, that actually happens more often than you'd think. Suddenly he's not the man you thought he was. Are you going to feel like less of a person because you gave your virginity under false pretenses? Does losing your virginity change anything about your character, or your personality, or your body, or your self? Can you point out one thing that actually changes when you have sex, other than the fact that you now know what it feels like to have sex? Nothing changes.
Feel free to continue to ignore my points in favor of complaining about the way I'm presenting them. I have to wonder though, how much life experience do you actually have? Have you ever been in a long term relationship? Usually I hate that kind of argument, the argument from experience, but here it fits. I think you have to have been in a committed relationship in order to fully grasp just how fragile they truly are.
I just thought it be pointless to speak why I felt so, because I know the reason would bring more debate. But ah well. I believe it because what My Goddess and God have taught me. I've made my own spin offs from it because I added my personal views and feelings to it. But I do just feel like our bodies are special. Everyone is, its just a matter of someone accepting it. Changing it doesn't mean you don't find your body sacred. Its when you look down upon yourself and see that the change is necessary because of society. Not for yourself.
see, now that is a proper defense. If only more people could do that. The only thing I would say is that I would stop using the word sacred for that. Special, sure, maybe even precious since its the only one you've got. But sacred is holy, and the body certainly isn't holy. It might be holey with an E, but its not holy. That is a whole different debate though.
that is a debate yes, I do still consider this. I'm still studying so to speak, so for the moment I use sacred. I might change it, but who knows.
I'm tired of the idea that debating is a bad thing. if we don't freely express ourselves, what are we living for? I mean, not everyone will agree with what's presented, but that's simply a fact of life. as long as you're speaking your truth, that's what matters. now, that doesn't mean Cody and I won't pick things apart when we see a need, but that's also part of life.
Very well put.
Patently stupid, or however you'd want to put it makes no difference.
Apparently it does if you got your frilly panties in a bunch about it. Or is it the fact that I disagreed with you that bothers you? If its that, I'd suggest not posting any more board topics. No one is ever going to say something that everyone agrees with.
No Cody, you don't have to agree with me, that certainly doesn't bother me at all. Because I respect your candid opinion, even if I don't believe in it.
I definitely don't see anything wrong with having sex with other people if you and said person are good friends or know each other, or just plain want to experience each other. I think everyone is unique or special just because even though everyone has a body it's different from everyone else's and not everyone is pleasured or enjoys pleasure in the same way. The one thing I do feel though, and perhaps it's just something I don't understand much as I haven't been in many fwb situations, I feel that a friends with benefits situation while great for the two of you and helping you fulfill certain things just after awhile would seem empty. To me there are certain things about sex that I have always thought were not really experienced unless you were in an exclusive relationship to that person. Feel free to tell me why you guys feel otherwise for those who have actually been in fwb type situations, but it just seems without the exclusivity there is a part of sex people will never experience while being with that person. One could say that the act of sex is purely physical and that people put way too much emotion into it and overanalyze it, but isn't being able to feel emotions and put emotions into something like sex one of the reasons we're actually better than most animals who just have sex because it's in their nature to survive?
I actually agree with you Jess. There is a part of sex which cannot be experienced without being in a committed relationship. However, I think people take that too far and say that you should then only have sex in a committed relationship. I think you should do both.
I'd certainly prefer to be in a committed relationship with someone before I had sex with her, but at the same time I wouldn't be averse to doing it with a woman I wasn't actually with as long as we knew each other reasonably well and were both on the same page.
Ok, I'm not disputing anything hereright now, I'm just genuinely confused about something. Jess, you say: "
I definitely don't see anything wrong with having sex with other people if you and said person are good friends or know each other, or just plain want to experience each other.". But then you say that FWB situations can feel empty after a while... Wait a minute...Isn't what you just described in that quote a type of FWB relationship? Unless your talking about one-time occurances, and even then, don't those constitute as a sort of FWB arrangement even though they only happen once, or on occasion?
Furthermore, how do one night stands, so to speak, feel fulfilling while ongoing FWB relationships feel empty? Wouldn't the one-time occurances feel just as empty if you're thinking along this line of logic?
I have my thoughts about the whole topic, and I'm not necessarily for or against anything you said in the post. I'm just trying to decipher what seems like a contradiction in this case. So?
thank you, Bernadetta. my thoughts exactly.
What she's saying is that over a long period of time, simply having sex with someone eventually loses its appeal. The hot girl or guy that at first you just had to get it on with has become familiar, and eventually you start wanting to watch movies rather than have sex. Contrary to popular belief, sex can get boring. However, with a committed relationship, there are different emotions involved, so it can help to prevent that from happening. Does that clear it up?
no, cause I personally feel that you still have to put in effort, whether in a commited relationship or otherwise. if not, of course it'll become boring and stay so. that can be applied to most things in life, though. plus, everyone is different, so it's unfair to say it'll definitely change for us all, when we're older.
Who said anything about age?
sorry, I just saw this, but yes, I think after awhile especially if you're just having sex for the sake of having sex with someone, it can come to a stalemate. There is just something you can't get from a person while just having ssex with them, things after while just start to feel empty. It requires a more emotional approach, at least in my oppinion. Even in a one night stand, yes, things would feel just as empty, if not more so, but you would know there is nothing after that, there's no hope of going up or down, there's just ok this just happened for one night, now let's just move on. Thanks for trying to explain what I was trying to say, cody.
Chelslicious has a very good point in her last post. The FWB thing in my mind is still a relationship, or should be, even if it's not an exclusive relationship, and every relationship needs investment by both parties to last.
Ok, but for me, (and this is my personal oppinion so I'll defend it as best I can), both situations would feel empty enough for me not to want to engage in them. I dont' see how a one-night-stand can be any less empty than an ongoing fwb arrangement. if anything, I find it more pointless. As you say, it's over after that one night. And that's exactly why, in my view it's too much of a hassle.
Heres why:
It takes a lot of effort to get to know someone to the level where I'd be comfortable enough to have sex with them. Now, I'm no prude; Far from it, in fact. But I need to know some things before I sleep with someone. Simply because I hate the idea of certain consequences arising, certain consequences which have a high potential of arising in any intimate situation.
I need to know whether the person I'm hopping into bed with is in fact not attached, for one. A lot of one night stands happen just because two people find each other sexually apealing, which , I see how that's plausable, but so many peopel who engage in one night stands have some sort of attachment to someone else, whether emotional or physical as well. I dont' want to be the girl who fucked someone's boyfriend, even if the boyfriend in question is a shitty one and would cheat on the girl with someone else. I have a huge problem with that personally, so I wouldnt' want to be involved, however minimally. I also dont' feel like it would do my self esteem a whole world of good to be someone's one-night rebound. Sure, it might feel good physically in the moment, but I hate the idea of being alone with those thoughts of emptiness afterword.It's just my personality that I'd dwell on that sort of thing later on, in general. I can't have sex and just move on. I get too emotionally attached, even if i'm not in love with the person for life or anything, I still feel bonded with that person to some degree, and so the in-the-moment feeling of extasy and the memory of the one night stand simply wouldnt' suffice.
I also dont' want to have to worry about STD's. Sure, in theory, your steady partner can also develop STD's one way or another, and people get STI's on a regular basis. But for me, even with the protection of condoms, it seems much too risky. Besides, I hate the feel of condoms. I dont' want to have to force a guy to wear one if he doesnt' want to, or if he doesn't like them.
One night stands can have damning consequences. And no matter how good the sex, some peopel end up asking themselves "was it worth it after all?" I've seen many a pleasure seekers pound their heads with clenched fists after realizing that some lasting change resulted from a one night stand. I'm not even talking about pregnancy here, although, that's a possibility as well. You fuck your best friend's boyfriend/girlfriend, you face crappy consequences. You hurt your friend, possibly end or alter a lasting friendship. You fuck a stranger from a night club, and it turns out he's got a crazy wife/girlfriend who's just about ready to perform a histerectomy on your ass without anesthesia. lol. You find out the guy you slept with also slept with your cousin, your sister, your best friend? awkward, no? and the list goes on. And while some will be quick to say that overanalyzing such things will never get you anywhere, I say it's worth the overanalysis in this case.
I also don't understand how people can have sex with friends and not feel a degree of awkwardness afterword if they weren't going to continue to do so. I'm not saying it's wrong not to feel awkward, I just dont' think I could personally pull it off.
Here's another reason why I don't consider one-night stands worth while, nor do I consider FWB arrangements to be so: I want the person I'm going to sleep with to work for it. I want them to get to know me beyond my physical attributes, beyond the first impression they get of me, beyond my outward appearance. I want them to want me not just for the sex. I think that's fair enough, given that sex, though it isnt' sacred and not necessarily special, it is intimate. It's an emotional investment on my part, and I want it to be so for my partner as well.
Now, if I were to enter into a relationship with someone, we had sex, then it didn't work out, it would still have been a relationship, where we were exclusively with each other. I guess I also feel disconcerted with the fact that with an FWB and a one night stand, the person I'm sleeping with could have been with someone else yesterday and will probably be with someone new the next day. Call me a selfish hoe, but if I'm putting out, I dont' want to share. lol.
Now, if I'm ever hopelessly single and so horny I could die, if I'm ever craving attention to the point of self-destruction, I'll save myself and get laid, and maybe I'll change my mind then. But for now, even if I were to become single again, I'd be perfectly fine with my assortment of toys until I felt ready to enter into a relationship again. I'm confident of that. I'm also confident of not having to resort to that any time soon, because, as fragile as long term relationships might be, the really good ones are also solid and can weather some of the worst of storms. I believe i'm in that kind of relationship right now.
So no, I dont' believe in being a virgin until marriage, obviously. lol. I don't think casual sex is horrible or ungodly or so sinful those engaging in it will die and go to hell. I do, however, personally view casual sex as pointless and potentially carying with it enough drama to make me want to stay away from it for good. I dont' want to fall for someone who only wants to sleep with me, I dont' want to be someone's spur-of-the-moment fling because they're getting bored with their girlfriend, I don't need the attention or the validation that I know one night stands bring some people who need it, and I can engage in awesome sex from a stable source which to me, is much more rewarding in the end.
Thank you. I'm off my soap box now. lol
I don't understand what can be better in sex with a committed relationship or not committed ?
I do agree that I am not a one night stand person unless it just ends up that way after the fact, but sex is good if sex is good.
I don't require any commitment .
When I feel I know a person well enough to want to have sex with them I invest some giving in to the relationship. Now, because I do that doesn't mean I can't invest that same or more or less in to another sexual relationship at the same time.
The only thing I can see I can't get in a not committed relationship is the garrentee I can have sex with that person when I want to all the time. I can't call at 4 or just show up at her house when I want her I have to make an arrangement. Otherwise I can share anything and everything with her where sex is concerned.
Commitment is something I feel is done out of bed. You are there for your person. You are available to them at anytime. You share your living space, or you promise them you will be with them for a time.
Maybe I'm odd, but I have had sex in the morning with one person, and by that night had sex with another person and the sex was as good with both as it could be.
I need a promise of cleanness, I need to know their habits, and I need them to be honest in that I can be totally comfortable in their company without fear of them having lied to me about say being married and the husband comes home or something. Give me that and sex is and can be shared totally.
When I decide to have sex I have already invested the emotion of liking that person a good deal. The girl on the next bar stool won't work for me, because I don't know her.
Wow bernadetta. I can't argue with that argument. Your logic is completely sound and it works for you. I will not tell you you're wrong, because your not. That is your outlook on the world and you've thought it through. That was perfectly argued.
Thank you cody. Thanks very much. That was my intention. To bring forth my views in a sound and logical light.
Something we both know can't be said for most others who have chosen to subscribe to this viewpoint. Which leads me to wonder, if it weren't for most people's inhibitions based on religious teachings and familial oppression, etc., how many of these so-called sexual saints would have a blast fucking till kingdom come? lol.
earlier in this topic, age was brought up, and having also discussed this very thing recently, I wanted to share my frustrations.
Bernadetta, I couldn't have one night stands, either, for the very reasons you mentioned. however, you clearly have misconceptions about what FWB's are. they're called that cause you're friends, who, upon discovering each of you likes one another's personality outside the bedroom, choose to take it in the bedroom. you also do things like go to dinner, spend time together as friends do, and are no less close than other relationships, as people seem to think. being exclusive isn't part of the agreement, which is perfectly fine by me. I'd rather be with someone who enjoys what I have to offer, knowing we'll have a good time, and that, no matter what happens down the road, I'm grateful for the awesome memories, and mutual appreziation we shared.
I agree that Bernadetta's post and subsequent ones were very thought out. I still say for me there are more questions than answers at this point in life, but I would not be so dishonorable or destructive or devastating as to violate the personal commitmet I made to my wife 20 years ago. So probably that removes some credibility from me since I have not been playing the field, as it were, for a couple decades now.
But for those who talk about the boredom of sex for sex's sake, people get bored in lots of situation. How about pay the mortgage for pay the mortgage's sake, bue we all accept it. Or boredom of the same venting over and over for emotions' sake, but we all accept it. Or the boredom of a zillion other things that we get bored of as years and decades go by. And we accept all of it, and don't blame commitments or lack thereof for this boredom. Lots step out of long-term relationships after the kids are grown because now their obligation is over and they're bored. I just don't see it anymore, and that's not because I'm looking for an out. I'm not, actually, I'm determined to take the new beginning I'm personally facing and make the most of it now that the daughter is moved out. But I just wonder how much of this is just cultural, like eating with chopsticks rather than a fork. That doesn't mean it's not important, of course it is. But provides the context.
once again, well said, leo.
OK Cody, I assume you love a good debate; that is all well and good but it's not going to work if you're always going to follow every post up with an attack; I'm not going to debate with you if that's all you're going to do; it's completely selfish and childish. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I'm certainly not going to provide you with any information you're requesting with the immature way you go about things. Want people to talk to you nicely? Well treat people nicely and with respect and you'll in turn get it right back at you and you'll be able to engage in sensible conversation; simple really? Life is so hard for some to grasp huh? *smile*
For you others who may be curious about my previous post as to my reasons, it was largely how I was brought up. That and forming my nown opinions later through talking to people.
Like others have said, the body is a sacred thing; You don't go around with absolutely no clothes on do you (even if I do feel like it in the intense summer heat. :)Lol! Why is this? why? Because we are all brought up to understand that we don't show our bodies off; perhaps inviting anyone to come up and feel us, do what they want with us.
Sex exists to ultimately produce children and children are supposed to have two parents - ie, in the majority of cases, a mother and a father. These said parents should idealy be married but over time marriage has become sadly devalued, but when you think about it, the above is the whole reason why sex exists. It is also commonly known that children exist as the exact result of their parents love for each other.
I couldn't therefore think of anything more filthy and sickening even to have sex with someone i hardly knew, or I was only friends with. I don't know them like I'd know my partner; I don't know where they've stuck their little wena you know. Further, I only want to get close to my partner cos I love him so much that it's the best way i know how to get the closest to him I possibly can. I ache for his touch, I ache for all of him, no-one elses.
The End
Wow, thank you for that good belly laugh you just gave me. Children are a direct result of parents love for each other? Really, you're joking aren't you? No one is actually that stupid and still able to function on their own without feeding tubes. Does the phrase, unplanned pregnancy mean anything to you?
No chelsea, I dont' have misconseptions about what FWB's are. Go back to my post and reread it; you'll find that most of my argument has to do with one night stands, but I made my case regarding the pointlessness of FWB's as well.
1: I said I didnt' want to fall for someone who only wanted to sleep with me. You can say all you want about how FWB's keep each other company during dinner and a movie, etc. and then sleep together just as well. But something's preventing those two people from wanting an exclusive relationship together, and that's where I'd likely get way in over my head if I were to pursue an FWB arrangement. I'd risk blurring the lines, no matter how clear they may seem to you because my personality is such that, I equate sex with involvement. I cant' help it. It's just the way I am; And I think it's better that I understand it rather than fool myself into thinking I'd be ok having sex with someone who wouldn't want to enter into a committed relationship with me.
2: I had said that it would be a turn off for me to know that the personI'm sleeping with was probably sleeping with someone else the day be for, for instance, and would move on to the next person tomorrow. You and I both understand that the point of an FWB is that you sleep together but aren't committed exclusively. If you recall, I had said that if I'm going to put out, I dont' like to share.
I think my points regarding this are valid, and I'm not close-minded, because as Cody pointed out in an earlier post, I thought them through soundly and logically, and I have good reasons for my outlook. I clearly stated that memories of the sex alone wouldn't suffice in the end, that I'd rather sleep with someone I have a potential of building something lasting with rather than sleep with someone with a mutual understanding that the relationship, if you want to call it that, isnt' going any where for sure.
I've seen way too many people become jaded with FWB situations, where maybe they fell for the FWB without the FWB recipricating. Or maybe the FWB moves on to an exclusive relationship with someone, and your left wondering why he or she wasn't interested in one with you but was eager to move on to one with someone else. See, that's what would be going through my mind. and no matter how much of a positive light you shed on it, I know my potential involvement with an FWB would equate to emotional complications for me, ones I'm not willing to entertain at all.
I had stated that I'd much rather be sexually satisfied within a stable relationship rather than to sleep with someone I'm sexually attracted to for a period of time without commitment because I'm confident that I'd get much more out of that sort of involvement. I don't think a few nights, or even a few months of great sex would be worth the emotional termoil I'd risk entangling myself in, and I think that's perfectly valid. I know myself well enough to understand that I wouldnt' do well in an FWB arrangement. I understand my emotional makeup and my personality well enough to know that I couldnt' kid myself into making it work for me. Hense my skepticism regarding them, no matter how you sugarcoat them. lol.
This post isn't as well written and organized as my previous on this topic, so I suggest if you still think I'm wrong regarding my stance on FWB's, go back to the previous post I made and read it more carefully. In it, I give plenty of reasons why not only one night stands but also FWB's are pointless in my view.
I think your post was plenty well written / organized.
Probably the hardest part about the FWB type situation is the lack of clarity. That seems to be what keeps coming up. Naturally, being long-term committed here, it's a bit out of my element. Lack of clarity in anything really frustrates us humans, even those who fantasize that they are somehow more open minded than the rest of us. Committed relationship, while not static and having gone through countless gyrations of changes with time, have at least some structural definition at the moment in time you're there. So one like Bernadetta's was called 'living in sin' by the old people when I was a teenager, even the old people who weren't fundamentalists or laughed about it or wished them well. And there were, and still are, peple who devalue a committed relationship like that without a marriage contract, even though those people are fewer in number than they once were. And marriage for love was at one time scandalous. To really understand Romeo and Juliet beyond the pretty poetry you have to understand the scandal that was marriage for love.
We all know, for instance, that a relationship like Bernadetta's with a fiancé and a baby (not picking on you just using an example), really isn't this easy-come-easy-go type existence the old folks of my youth painted it, or that people now paint the FWB situations. But what people who lived together had to figure out was how to communicate the structure of their relationship, rather than just defend it as "I'm gonna be me!" I'm guessing that FWB types of relationships will have to do the same thing. It used to be classed selfish to reproduce outside of a marriage contract: the committed relationship was seen as a fraud if the license wasn't there.
So perhaps today's Chelsea is yesterday's Bernadetta, or last week's Leo and spouse where she's five years older than Leo and they got together before Leo was properly financially settled with a big income.
All were scandalous at some point. And the only way to unscandalize them was for them to develop definition. It's definition, not demand, that provides understanding.
I still don't know: I know when I was Chelsea's age, we called what she is talking about, 'unattached sex,' which sounds funny now. Somewhat sounds like a biological impossibility. I don't look down on it anymore. After all, the old people of my own youth were wrong: people raised outside of a marriage contract can be found everywhere, from the prisons up to the highest quarters of Fortune 500 companies. If they're wrong about those relationships turning out all a mess, then why wouldn't I be, regarding what we used to call unattached sex? I don't claim to be somehow better or enlightened than them. Hopefully more informed, based on what we know, but that doesn't mean I wish to simply repeat the cycle. But the FWB types will have to do like the rest of us have, demonstrate structure and definition in such a way as to communicate what they have and who they are to the rest of us. It's gonna get sticky when it comes to insurance. But in my early days of working, relationships like Bernadettas couldn't get each other's health insurance from work either. And even in my own youth, there were people who thought me a flake and uncommitted for not being fully financially settled before getting permanently attached. This was 1993, more than a decade after the equal Rights Amendment, so go figure. Watching this thread, I just feel like maybe I am watching the same film with different players on board, perhaps. so while there's a lot I really don't know like I used to pretend like I knew, I will stand by what I said regarding the FWB types: It needs definition so it can be naturally communicated in society, and then you'll find wider acceptance.
As to the jaded thing Bernadettabrought up? I think that's a bit anecdotal although certainly valid for a personal decision. People are jaded in marriages all over the country, and they are not even blaming the partner, nor are they necessarily lazy in the relationships. The long term marriages I have seen break up has astounded me, because of the characters of the people involved. Really good people: I'd say to quote an old guy expression, "a better Christian than I'll ever be." They cared a lot about each other and the kids and all sorts of things. Surely they had problems at home, but don't we all? All I do know is had I been tactless enough to bet money on other people's relationships, those I would have put high stakes on succeeding and they'd have put me in the poorhouse.
that's just it, though. most people can't handle FWB relationships, and end up manipulating and lying to whoever they're with.it has been said that it's mostly women who have that outlook, and I agree. I also realize I'm an exception, and I love that.
given that my very first sexual experience was a rape, after it happened, I promised myself that if someone came along that I wanted to share myself with, I'd freely do so. I didn't think it'd happen, but it was important to me, as I didn't wanna be like most survivors who are often traumatized by being raped. I present a positive outlook on sex as a whole, now, cause I live it, and feel it's of the utmost importance to potentially encourage people to think differently.
Hmm, Leo, I'm not sure how I stand regarding your theory. In a sense, what you say is logical, but I'll venture to say that an FWB arrangement will never really be as clearly understood as a marriage with a broke man or a partnership where two people cohabit. Or rather, it will be understood, but perhaps it still won't register with many people as something they could do, not because it might be viewed substandard in the way of society for whatever reason, but because they couldn't handle the casualness of the noncommitment of it.
Maybe I'm wrong, I dont' know. Because I guess there are plenty of people who wont' live with someone without being married.
What I'm trying to say is, I dont' view the FWB thing as something sinful or scandalous or whatever, but rather just something that's not up my alley for the reasons I described.
I'm not saying I'd be ashamed to find myself in such a situation, just that I wouldnt' seek one out because I couldnt' handle it.
Chelsea's right. many people cant' handle that sort of thing. And about being jaded, sure everyone can become jaded in whatever kind of a relationship, but I'll go back to stand with my original idea that people's relationships discintegrate not because they dont' care about each other, but because they lack effective communication.
Those marriages you speak of probably began to discintegrate long before the divorce papers were drawn, probably because the partners caused a rift they couldn't figure out how to fix because communication was missing. I guess you can also become jaded with an FWB situation for the same reasons. Lack of understanding. You go into it with an understanding that someone might come arround to yrou point of view, or else you lie to yourself that you will come around to theirs, and neither happens.
But with an FWB relationship the lines are less clearly drawn, therefore, maybe there's more room for miscommunication between FWB's.
Chelsea's outlook is unique, I agree. I apreciate that I can't relate to where she's coming from, having never been raped and having had a relatively smooth childhood, etc.
I grew up being raised by a single mom who's life revolved around raising me and working at her shitty job. She had me at 18 with a fiance she was due to marry, but then her mother, (my grandmother) decided that her whole family would emmigrate from Poland to the United States, and she made my mom choose between a future in america or a life with a poor fiance in the villages of poland, with little opportunity. My mom, for her own reasons, chose the plane ticket, with single motherhood on the side.
Today, my mom is forty something yearsold and she's still alone, and still working her ass off at a job around which her life seems to revolve more or less. She was in severla relationships which didnt' work out for one reason or another, but in the end, she either resigned to being single or stayed away from trying to be with anyone because maybe she felt burned out on relationships or whatever, that's for her to know and for me to only speculate, if that. Anyway, she works as a seamstress in a bridal shop--How ironic is that?
My point is, I guess I've always wondered if my mom was actually happy in the life she chose for herself. I'm not saying you can't be happy while single, because I believe you can be if that's the lifestyle you feel is best for her. My point in this pointless story is that I often find myself wondering about whether she's actually happy or just resigned to the way her life has been so far. I question it because I can see sometimes that perhaps she's more resigned than anything.
And so with that, I guess I've made a subconscious decision to ensure that I'm happy with my life on a longterm scale. I've put a lot of thought into deciding what kind of situations would make me miserable and confused and what sort of situations would make me feel fulfilled. I've decided that an FWB situation would probably be something that would put me in the first category. I take plenty of risks and I do believe it's ok to live in the moment, but I put a lot of forethought into those risks I might be faced with. I'm willing to bet a million bucks that it's also just the type of personality I possess.
So as you can see, my outlook and chelsea's outlook, for example were both derived from different life situations. Some things in our lives prompted us to take on a certain prospective. And while I can't relate to her situations and dont' share her outlook, i'm not going to condemn it.
I'm curious about something though, chelsea. I really apreciate your unique perspective and though I dont' see myself sharing it with you, I'm open to learning more about it.
So my question is:
say you find yourself attracted to someone who's in a traditional relationship, but he seems attracted to you as well. He might be havign issues with his wife/gf/whatever, for that moment in time. Would you be willing to sleep with him if the mood struck you, and venture into an FWB situation with him despite the fact he's still attached to that person, or would you stay away because he wasn't really coming into it without strings attached.
You say you want to make sure you are open to enjoying sex with anyone who might be interested in enjoying it with you, so it made me honestly curious to see what you thought about that sort of thing.
Thoughtful as always, Bernadetta. Posts like that clarify a lot.
excuse me for apparently not clarifying myself. when I say I'd have sex with anyone, I mean anyone who's single. just as I wouldn't cheat in a commited relationship, I wouldn't be the other woman.
oh, and, Bernadetta, you said yourself, and I agree, that relationships often fail due to poor communication. that's no different with an FWB relationship.
Yeah chelsea, that's what I just said. lol. FWB's fail on account of miscommunication.
And BTW, I think your outlook is healthy. I can see how it's perfectly fine to have sex without strings attached when you have nothing to lose even though, as I've said, it's not for me. I probably said that before, but I wouldnt' want to get in between a couple--That sort of drama is just not for me. But a single person is certainly fair play. I asked because i've met women and men with a similar outlook to yours, but their approach to the single versus involved thing was much more casual and I'd even venture to say, ruthless. Some people's logic is that sex should be enjoyed, if desired by both parties, at any cost. But I'd think that with that in mind, you're just looking for trouble. I dont' care if a man isn't happy in his relationship or marriage or if he doesnt' feel up to honoring the commitment he made to the other person; It's not for me to make him feel good when I know I'd be screwing someone else over in the process. If your that unhappy, leave the relationship, I say, and then venture out for some good old-fashioned fucking. Don't try to complicate things by sneaking around behind someone's back just to get what you might want in that moment, because you risk messing with someone's trust and hurting their feelings unnecessarily. And what good does that do for anyone involved? Sure, the affair or trist is often fun, I'd say, but at what cost. If I put my trust in someone, I expect I should be able to fall back on that trust while within that relationship. It sucks to be cheated on; I know from experience. So I wouldnt' help someone cheat on someone else just because I might get a bit of pleasure out of it in the process.
I'll never understand how silly little girls get involved with grown, married men thinking: But he said he loves me, not her. They aren't happy anyway. He said their marriage is over. It's long been over for them. She treats him like shit and I just want to make him feel good. He's going to leave her; He said he will.
Really? If that were the case, he'd have left her long before he met you, honey.
Just for shits and giggles, I killed some time by browsing through random personal ads on craigslist once. Just to see why craigslist is such a popular hookup too. And I kid you not, about 80 percent of the ads went like this.
In town on business, married, looking for some fun. Must be clean, early-mid twenties, well-proportioned and up for a meeting, drinks and more.
lol
or,
Married, looking for someone to help me reignite that fire I've been missing for so long.
Ok well, maybe you should be saving up financially for the impending divorce or spending your time at marital councelling instead of spending your money and time on someone who will help you escape for a brief moment.
then there was my personal favorite because it made me laugh so much.
Ready for some nice, tight young pussy. Must be well-dressed, clean-shaven, and must have some experience sucking cock. Me: I'm married but the wife's pussy just isnt' tight enough anymore. I'll send you pics you send me yours.
hahahahaha
Anyway, my point is, go and have fun, but if your messing around with someone else's boyfriend/girlfriend or spouse, it really becomes a question of character, I'd venture to think. Who the hell needs those kind of problems. Apparently a lot of people do, judging by how often humans cheat in exclusive situations. I'm not some holier than thou person, and I try to be realistic. But I honestly dont' see a point in getting involved with someone who's cheating.
There are those that say they fell in love with the person they had an affair with. They swear they're going to get together and be a happy couple once the person ends that old relationship. So in that case, if you helped someone cheat on his or her spouse, what makes you think he or she wont' cheat on you. lol
There goes my two cents' worth.
I agree with what you said, Bernadetta, and will take it further by saying that baggage is a complete no no for me in any kind of relationship. it's unwanted drama, and I, like you, want no part in it.
those who fuck married men, or nen having rocky times with their girlfriends are, as you said, asking for trouble. and, honestly, hearing about that makes me grateful everyone I've talked with about this is on the same wavelength as I am.
don't even get me started on Craigslist. I'd never go that route, ever. I take sex really seriously, and wouldn't do it with anyone I didn't know and trust, and who didn't feel the same towards me.
The question here was do you have to be in a relationship to have sex?
We have seen lots of opinions, and I'm one that sides with Chelsea, even though it is not an easy life to lead. It is easy for me, because Bernadetta, even if a woman moves on to a commited relationship with someone else won't make me feel like I wasn't good enough. I'd go to her wedding if she invited me, and be happy she found the person she felt was best for her.
I can even have a good relationship with her mate, but that is one of the most difficult. She can never tell him we were intimate friends, or lovers for a time.
This statement will seem odd, but I had and enjoyed her, and if our relationship was good for the time it lasted I'll have good memories, not feel like I was left out.
The reason this lifestyle is difficult, is because people agree to get in to it, because, well, they need safe, and easy intimacy, but they don't really mean it, so get hurt.
Good sex isn't commitment, as I have stated, that is the rest you do when you aren't having sex, and sex is an add on to that relationship, not what makes it.
Burnadetta said it best when she said, if the person cheated on someone to be with you, who's to say they won't cheat on you. One of the sayings that I really like to use in these kind of situations is the grass isn't always greener on the other side, it's green where you water it. So either, fix your problems or don't get involved with people who need to fix theirs. Yeah that married man or woman might be a nice fling and you may very well be attracted to them, but is it really worth messing up their relationship and involving yourself in their drama for a good fuck? I'd venture not.
I'd like to add that if people knew themselves like Bernadetta,, and didn't even try an FWB relationship, that be great.
No matter how people say they respect honesty, it is not a pleasant thing to have to tell someone you enjoy them sexually, but you don't wish more from them except the pleasure, and fun times shared when that time comes around.
You can justify all you want that you were honest, so are not responsible for them feeling bad, but that doesn't help much when you have to hurt someone you like enough to go to bed with. That is how I feel anyway.
I've been ask, but what if you are the one to have a change of heart?
I won't, and have not, because I don't exspect them to agree, and I really don't want someone to be with me out of guilt. It has to be a two way agreement, or it won't due.
I'm not cold, but I don't allow myself to want a person that has not shown me or told me in some way they want me as well. I have the opinion that people come in to my life for a season for a reason, and if they leave I've hopefully gotten something during that season I can keep with me for life.
If I could have more relationships with people that think like Chelsea, I could truly enjoy them fully.
My time may come again when I want commitment, and at that time I'll look for it.
something that was touched on earlier, that I meant to comment on, is the idea that in presenting opinions, people are also seeking acceptance. that may be true for some, but not me. I simply wanna be heard, and, as I've said, with that comes the potential to encourage a different way of thinking.
when I say something, no matter what it is, people can be certain it's well thought out, and heartfelt. this, of course, includes my outlook on sex, which has been the one thing that helps me lead a generally happy life.
I find FWB relationships incredibly fulfilling, cause I'm good at choosing honest, straightforward partners, who know the same will be returned. also, there are no expectations, which is something that's difficult for most people to carry out, and even grasp.
I have no reason to be hurt, cause everything has been laid out from the start, and if something changes, it's brought up right then. I'm not bothered by the knowledge that myself or my partner won't be long term, cause we're commited to each other's happiness and pleasure right now, which is most important, anyway.
also, as Wayne said, there are no hangups, if you will, about remaining friends if one or both of you gets into a commited relationship. since your bond is strong, and neither person has lied, things come naturally.
oh, and, I, like Wayne, wish more people would get to know themselves, and what they can and can't handle. if that happened more regularly, as Bernadetta has shown, people could at least be on the path to sexual happiness.
I agree with that statement for many reasons. Sexual happiness is between the ears first, and physical next.
People have already said the important thing here, communication! Allowing for good communication so both parties are on the same page, then sex is fine whatever level of commitment you are at:)
I wonder if you were one of the many children of unplanned pregnancies, cody? Or if your parents don't love you, who the hell raised you? Because many parents love there children, some planned to have them, having sex during their committed relationship. I believe that sex is not just something to do with just anyone, or even just a friend, for that matter. I mean, I'd do, Cody. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it, even if you don't ag6ee...
*agree*
Normally I would rip your head off for saying that about my parents dolce. My parents love me as entirely as parents can love children, and I would thank you not to impune that.
However, if you look back through your post you will notice you put a lot of providers in your sentenes. You said many parents love their children, not all parents. You said there are many children of unplanned pregnancy. Please then tell me how children are an outcome of love? Just because some are planned, doesn't mean they're an outcome of ti. They're an outcome of sex. The love is just an addition.
I agree planned or not planned pregnancy has nothing to do with loving the child. That has to do with the parents mind set, and many unplanned children receive just as much, or lack or love as planned children.
Many feel that sex for sex sake is not being responsible, and it is lack of self-control.
My thoughts on that are in my case I’m not going to have sex for sex sake with anyone I feel is not responsible for her actions. That might be a risk, because she may not be responsible for her sex.
If I decide to have sex with someone I think is not responsible for her actions, I take full responsibility for the sex. That means making sure our sex is clean, and healthy, and being responsible for the outcome of our sex for the both of us.
If that outcome is a child, I take on the full load if she decides to have it, and am responsible for its care.
There are cases where I might decide to be with someone for sex sake. Maybe she is not sexual dangerous or anything, but doesn’t take care of her money, work, or home as well as I feel she should, and doesn’t care either.
In that case we are not going to set up housekeeping, but sex could be enjoyed, because she is not a sexual risk, just a bad home and life manager.
Lots of men and women like this that make great sex partners.